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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:00 pm 
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Just wanted to ask for curiosity's sake: how many certifications for bookkeepers exist right now that are nationally recognized in the US? As far as I've seen by reading the posts that were put up quite a while ago, there are three: CB, CPB, and PB. It seems that the one which is most known (at least as far as my research went) was CB (it was mentioned in the bureau of labor manual online).


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:03 pm 
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Hi Tony,

You are correct as far as the three accreditations. However, technically the Certified Public Bookkeeper (CPB) is a license issued by the National Association of Certified Public Bookkeepers (NACPB). NACPB was founded by a CPA firm and has a mission to protect the public interest by helping to ensure that only qualified individuals provide public bookkeeping services and to help public bookkeepers develop highly profitable bookkeeping practices. They are developing a true "profession" out of the public bookkeeping profession. Research has shown that the most widely recognized accreditation is the CPB. Primarily because NACPB has a substantial brand awareness campaign to promote the accreditation. Although the CB is recognized in the Bureau of Labor Statistics' Occupational Outlook Handbook, no one reads the Manual. NACPB not only markets the brand to small business owners and employees, but also to other professionals such as CPAs and EAs. It appears the CB is primarily for bookkeepers wanting to obtain a bookkeeping job (thus the use of the words "job" and "resume" in their marketing literature). The CPB is exclusively for bookkeepers or accountants who provide public bookkeeping services or bookkeeping services to the public as an independent contractor. I'll let UAC speak of their PB accreditation.

Cathy Hernandez


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:41 am 
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cathysbooks wrote:
Hi Tony,

You are correct as far as the three accreditations. However, technically the Certified Public Bookkeeper (CPB) is a license issued by the National Association of Certified Public Bookkeepers (NACPB). NACPB was founded by a CPA firm and has a mission to protect the public interest by helping to ensure that only qualified individuals provide public bookkeeping services and to help public bookkeepers develop highly profitable bookkeeping practices. They are developing a true "profession" out of the public bookkeeping profession. Research has shown that the most widely recognized accreditation is the CPB. Primarily because NACPB has a substantial brand awareness campaign to promote the accreditation. Although the CB is recognized in the Bureau of Labor Statistics' Occupational Outlook Handbook, no one reads the Manual. NACPB not only markets the brand to small business owners and employees, but also to other professionals such as CPAs and EAs. It appears the CB is primarily for bookkeepers wanting to obtain a bookkeeping job (thus the use of the words "job" and "resume" in their marketing literature). The CPB is exclusively for bookkeepers or accountants who provide public bookkeeping services or bookkeeping services to the public as an independent contractor. I'll let UAC speak of their PB accreditation.

Cathy Hernandez


You're being a tad bit biased here Cathy. I know you're trying to promote the CPB but that organization has not been around that long, maybe close to 3 years, it's not all that well known.

I have obtained the PB certification from UAC but I'll be the one to tell you that the CB is the most well known. I am a member of the Association of Certified Fraud Examiners. The only bookkeeping certification they recognize to help you qualify for the CFE certification is the CB. So believe me, the American Institute of Professional Bookkeepers is the most widely known and accepted. That could be because the AIPB's bookkeeping exam is proctored, meaning that you have to go to a testing center to take the exam. It looks more legitimate that way; it's way harder to cheat.

Even though UAC has been around for over 30 years, they are still not recognized like the AIPB is. That's just life.

I'm being honest and neutral about these certifications. But, I think it's kind of tacky that you are on UAC's board promoting the NACPB's certification. Again, I guess that's life. :shock:


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:39 am 
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Personally, my initial reaction to the post was that it was an inappropriate advertisement; however, this is a forum to help others and providing information relative to other eductional/certification programs is useful.

That said, I draw the line when someone compares one program to another when the person doing the comparing has a potential conflict of interest such as Cathy. I would venture to guess that the NACPB website contains all the marketing information that is necessary.

I agree with Statia, to supply any information is good, but to provide any sort of comparison (while there is a potential conflict of interest) does not belong here and, at a minimum, is tacky.

Just my opinion.

Rob


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:03 am 
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[quote="cathysbooks"]Statia,

To the best of my knowledge, NACPB has been around for about 5 years.

You state that the CB is the most well known because the CB is the only bookkeeping certification recognized by the Association of Certified Fraud Examiners to help you qualify for the CFE certification. That may be so, but that does not support your claim.

I stated that my position is based on research. For the past two years NACPB has conducted an annual survey asking small business owners and bookkeeping and accounting professionals which public bookkeeping accreditation they recognized. In 2007 the CPB was more recognized in 4 out of 5 regions of the US. The same was reported in 2008 with a national average increase over the two other accreditations of 8% over 2007.

As I mentioned, as far as I know NACPB is the only organization out of the three organizations providing a bookkeeping accreditation that has a brand awareness marketing campaign that specifically builds the CPB brand among small business owners and bookkeeping and accounting professionals and not just to prospective CPB, CB, or PB candidates.

As far as AIPB’s “proctoredâ€


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:53 pm 
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cathysbooks wrote:
NACPB was founded by a CPA firm and has a mission to protect the public interest by helping to ensure that only qualified individuals provide public bookkeeping services and to help public bookkeepers develop highly profitable bookkeeping practices. They are developing a true "profession" out of the public bookkeeping profession. Research has shown that the most widely recognized accreditation is the CPB. Primarily because NACPB has a substantial brand awareness campaign to promote the accreditation. Although the CB is recognized in the Bureau of Labor Statistics' Occupational Outlook Handbook, no one reads the Manual. NACPB not only markets the brand to small business owners and employees, but also to other professionals such as CPAs and EAs. It appears the CB is primarily for bookkeepers wanting to obtain a bookkeeping job (thus the use of the words "job" and "resume" in their marketing literature). The CPB is exclusively for bookkeepers or accountants who provide public bookkeeping services or bookkeeping services to the public as an independent contractor.

Cathy,

I didn't mean to offend you, but everything that appears above sounds like an advertisement and although not directly stated, it is certainly implied that any other designation falls far short of CPB. The fact that you serve as a volunteer is, in my eyes, a conflict of interest.

I appreciate that you are informing the members of this forum of another avenue to pursue, but I take offense when other designations are demeaned, regardless of purported research presumably conducted by or paid for by the NACPB.

Rob


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:57 pm 
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I think Stasia may have a point about who the CFE recognizes. Here's a link from the AICPA. It states that the AICB is the national association and certifying body for bookkeepers.

http://www.aicpa.org/Magazines+and+News ... he+Law.htm

I'd call several CPA firms to see what they have to say if it were me.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:59 pm 
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cathysbooks wrote:
Hi Statia,

I didn't say I wasn't biased. I'm a CPB and a proud member of NACPB. As I stated, I serve as a volunteer on several of their committees including the committee that conducts the annual survey I referred to. However, I'm not going to get on this Forum and proactively promote NACPB. But, I'm happy to answer any questions that some on this Forum may have regarding NACPB or its membership, training, certifications, or licensing such as Tony did.

Have a great weekend!

Cathy Hernandez


LOL...ok.

Does the NACPB not have a forum board like this one? Why on earth would I want to ask you questions about the NACPB if I'm obviously on Universal Accounting Center's website? Maybe you're not aware that the NACPB and the UAC are competitors? Or, maybe you don't know what the word bias means. I highly doubt that but I am tempted to give you the benefit of the doubt.

I still say tacky... :wink:


Last edited by stasia2003 on Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:02 pm 
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oops. Hit the wrong button.


Last edited by stasia2003 on Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:22 pm 
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dp1903,

The link takes you to a March 2006 article written by Steven Sahlein, co-president of the AIPB. It is not an AICPA statement or endorsement.

Cathy Hernandez


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:49 pm 
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It is, however, on the AICPA website, and, therefore, I would view it as recognition by the AICPA of the organization's credibility.

I'm not saying your organization isn't just as credible. I don't know, that's the problem. It would be good if there were one nationally recognized association and accredidation. Three creates confusion for me. Why three and what's the difference between the three is my thinking.

I
Quote:
I stated that my position is based on research. For the past two years NACPB has conducted an annual survey asking small business owners and bookkeeping and accounting professionals which public bookkeeping accreditation they recognized. In 2007 the CPB was more recognized in 4 out of 5 regions of the US. The same was reported in 2008 with a national average increase over the two other accreditations of 8% over 2007.


The main problem with this is that the research has been conducted by NACPB, not an independent company free of bias. There is an appearance of a conflict of interest, bias at the least as a result. Credibility is gained by other reputable organizations recognizing your organization, i.e. references.

To me, the CFE recognition bears more weight. I assume it is independent of the AIPB?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:19 am 
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cathysbooks wrote:
So, that's why I'm such an advocate of NACPB. I love what they are doing and where they are headed.

:? Then advocate for NACPB on their forums. I have nothing against you personally, but, as I see it, you drink from the NACPB "fountain" and regardless of your "belief" in the integrity and sincerity of the organization, you are not a disinterested party. I'm sure there were just as many "followers" working for Ken Lay (of Enron), too. :cry: I would say the same to someone who worked for Intuit coming here saying that QuickBooks is the best software in the world. Can you just imagine a Ford representative entering a Toyota dealership saying how Ford is better? Well, I look at this situation as the same thing.

My opinion (I'm not speaking for the majority or anyone else on this forum) - I welcome you here and continue to appreciate any information that you might share; however, please stop short of endorsing the NACPB, informing members here why the NACPB is better than any other organization, or informing members here of the integrity and sincerity of the NACPB. That should be left for marketing material and NACPB's forums.

Rob :)


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:33 am 
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cathysbooks wrote:
As I stated before, I'm not going to get on this Forum and proactively promote NACPB. But, I'm happy to answer any questions that some on this Forum may have regarding NACPB.

Point in fact, Tony asked a question in regards to NACPB's Certified Public Bookkeeper (CPB) accreditation; others joined in on the discussion; and I only replied to them as I have to you.

Cathy,

In an attempt to make my point (and again, it's just my opinion), I'm going to review your first response to Tony and tell you where I think you crossed the "line" in an attempt to "proactively promote". You may not have intended to cross the line, but I believe that you did.

cathysbooks wrote:
You are correct as far as the three accreditations. However, technically the Certified Public Bookkeeper (CPB) is a license issued by the National Association of Certified Public Bookkeepers (NACPB).

Awesome! You've provide some very useful and non-partisan information.
cathysbooks wrote:
NACPB was founded by a CPA firm and has a mission to protect the public interest by helping to ensure that only qualified individuals provide public bookkeeping services and to help public bookkeepers develop highly profitable bookkeeping practices.

Crossed the line. Are you implying that only the NACPB produces "qualified" individuals and other organizations do not?

cathysbooks wrote:
They are developing a true "profession" out of the public bookkeeping profession.

Crossed the line. Are you implying that only the NACPB is developing a "true" profession and other organizations are not?

cathysbooks wrote:
Research has shown that the most widely recognized accreditation is the CPB.

Crossed the line. Research conducted by and/or paid for by the NACPB. I don't care how much the founder wants the truth, that's comparable to the fox watching the henhouse.

cathysbooks wrote:
Primarily because NACPB has a substantial brand awareness campaign to promote the accreditation.

Crossed the line. Again, you are implying that other organizations do not or that the NACPB (says you) does it better.

cathysbooks wrote:
Although the CB is recognized in the Bureau of Labor Statistics' Occupational Outlook Handbook, no one reads the Manual.

Crossed the line. Are you implying that the AICB is some "hack" organization because it's only recognized by some tiny governmental body that publishes some insignificant information? Personally, I don't think you were implying here, I believe you were lambasting another organization in an attempt to belittle it or improve the readers opinion of NACPB. Given your association (volunteer or not) with the NACPB, this is beyond your opinion. It is at best, tacky and at worst, a CONFLICT OF INTEREST.

cathysbooks wrote:
NACPB not only markets the brand to small business owners and employees, but also to other professionals such as CPAs and EAs.

Crossed the line. The implication, again, is that only the NACPB is doing that or the NACPB is doing it better.

cathysbooks wrote:
It appears the CB is primarily for bookkeepers wanting to obtain a bookkeeping job (thus the use of the words "job" and "resume" in their marketing literature).

Crossed the line. Wow! The clear implication is to stay away from the AICB if you want a "real" career as a bookkeeper. Where do you personally draw the line? Is it just before you say, "the AICB is a sham organization and all its members are morons"?

cathysbooks wrote:
The CPB is exclusively for bookkeepers or accountants who provide public bookkeeping services or bookkeeping services to the public as an independent contractor.

Crossed the line. The implication is that the other organizations will let anyone in the door. The NACPB can say that it's exclusively for bookkeepers or accountants, but the reality is it all comes down to the quality of the education, the person receiving the education, the ability of the person to harness the education and apply the education, and then the business owner to ensure they hire the right person or firm.

cathysbooks wrote:
I'll let UAC speak of their PB accreditation.

If you want to keep advertising here for the NACPB, that would be a good thing even though you've kind of implied that the UAC sucks compared to the NACPB (my opinion).

Let me qualify my position with regard to the NACPB, the AICB and the UAC. I have a B.S. in Accounting and have 17 years of experience in the accounting profession with experience in large firms and small. I currently have my own practice and could care less about an accredidation from NACPB, AICB, UAC, or any other organization. I don't personally need it. That said, I have NO experience with the NACPB, the AICB, or UAC. I am also NOT affiliated with (volunteer or otherwise) these or any other organizations of their type. That said, I do credit any organization that helps someone start their own business and helps them do the right thing for their clients. I've had the privilege of sparring with some very smart people on this forum and with rare exception (one immediately comes to mind) has anyone lambasted any other organization. If a member has had experience with another organization and they are not affiliated (IN ANY MANNER) with that organization, then I take what they say as an opinion. In your case, you ARE affiliated (volunteer or not) and that puts your comments, IN MY OPINION, in the category of ... ADVERTISING.

Further, considering that you have not responded to any member's questions on here, but one and your comments seem solely intent on defending the NACPB, I question what your real motive is in being a member of this forum. If you'd like to stick around a while and put some of that NACPB education to work for some of our members, I think we'd all look upon that quite favorably. Then, and only then, would some of us be willing to give you some latitude with respect to your association with the NACPB and bringing some of their "Kool-Aid" here for our consumption.

With respect,

Rob


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:55 am 
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RobJ wrote:
cathysbooks wrote:
As I stated before, I'm not going to get on this Forum and proactively promote NACPB. But, I'm happy to answer any questions that some on this Forum may have regarding NACPB.

Point in fact, Tony asked a question in regards to NACPB's Certified Public Bookkeeper (CPB) accreditation; others joined in on the discussion; and I only replied to them as I have to you.

Cathy,

In an attempt to make my point (and again, it's just my opinion), I'm going to review your first response to Tony and tell you where I think you crossed the "line" in an attempt to "proactively promote". You may not have intended to cross the line, but I believe that you did.

cathysbooks wrote:
You are correct as far as the three accreditations. However, technically the Certified Public Bookkeeper (CPB) is a license issued by the National Association of Certified Public Bookkeepers (NACPB).

Awesome! You've provide some very useful and non-partisan information.
cathysbooks wrote:
NACPB was founded by a CPA firm and has a mission to protect the public interest by helping to ensure that only qualified individuals provide public bookkeeping services and to help public bookkeepers develop highly profitable bookkeeping practices.

Crossed the line. Are you implying that only the NACPB produces "qualified" individuals and other organizations do not?

cathysbooks wrote:
They are developing a true "profession" out of the public bookkeeping profession.

Crossed the line. Are you implying that only the NACPB is developing a "true" profession and other organizations are not?

cathysbooks wrote:
Research has shown that the most widely recognized accreditation is the CPB.

Crossed the line. Research conducted by and/or paid for by the NACPB. I don't care how much the founder wants the truth, that's comparable to the fox watching the henhouse.

cathysbooks wrote:
Primarily because NACPB has a substantial brand awareness campaign to promote the accreditation.

Crossed the line. Again, you are implying that other organizations do not or that the NACPB (says you) does it better.

cathysbooks wrote:
Although the CB is recognized in the Bureau of Labor Statistics' Occupational Outlook Handbook, no one reads the Manual.

Crossed the line. Are you implying that the AICB is some "hack" organization because it's only recognized by some tiny governmental body that publishes some insignificant information? Personally, I don't think you were implying here, I believe you were lambasting another organization in an attempt to belittle it or improve the readers opinion of NACPB. Given your association (volunteer or not) with the NACPB, this is beyond your opinion. It is at best, tacky and at worst, a CONFLICT OF INTEREST.

cathysbooks wrote:
NACPB not only markets the brand to small business owners and employees, but also to other professionals such as CPAs and EAs.

Crossed the line. The implication, again, is that only the NACPB is doing that or the NACPB is doing it better.

cathysbooks wrote:
It appears the CB is primarily for bookkeepers wanting to obtain a bookkeeping job (thus the use of the words "job" and "resume" in their marketing literature).

Crossed the line. Wow! The clear implication is to stay away from the AICB if you want a "real" career as a bookkeeper. Where do you personally draw the line? Is it just before you say, "the AICB is a sham organization and all its members are morons"?

cathysbooks wrote:
The CPB is exclusively for bookkeepers or accountants who provide public bookkeeping services or bookkeeping services to the public as an independent contractor.

Crossed the line. The implication is that the other organizations will let anyone in the door. The NACPB can say that it's exclusively for bookkeepers or accountants, but the reality is it all comes down to the quality of the education, the person receiving the education, the ability of the person to harness the education and apply the education, and then the business owner to ensure they hire the right person or firm.

cathysbooks wrote:
I'll let UAC speak of their PB accreditation.

If you want to keep advertising here for the NACPB, that would be a good thing even though you've kind of implied that the UAC sucks compared to the NACPB (my opinion).

Let me qualify my position with regard to the NACPB, the AICB and the UAC. I have a B.S. in Accounting and have 17 years of experience in the accounting profession with experience in large firms and small. I currently have my own practice and could care less about an accredidation from NACPB, AICB, UAC, or any other organization. I don't personally need it. That said, I have NO experience with the NACPB, the AICB, or UAC. I am also NOT affiliated with (volunteer or otherwise) these or any other organizations of their type. That said, I do credit any organization that helps someone start their own business and helps them do the right thing for their clients. I've had the privilege of sparring with some very smart people on this forum and with rare exception (one immediately comes to mind) has anyone lambasted any other organization. If a member has had experience with another organization and they are not affiliated (IN ANY MANNER) with that organization, then I take what they say as an opinion. In your case, you ARE affiliated (volunteer or not) and that puts your comments, IN MY OPINION, in the category of ... ADVERTISING.

Further, considering that you have not responded to any member's questions on here, but one and your comments seem solely intent on defending the NACPB, I question what your real motive is in being a member of this forum. If you'd like to stick around a while and put some of that NACPB education to work for some of our members, I think we'd all look upon that quite favorably. Then, and only then, would some of us be willing to give you some latitude with respect to your association with the NACPB and bringing some of their "Kool-Aid" here for our consumption.

With respect,

Rob


Very nice! You belong in a courtroom... :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:58 am 
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cathysbooks wrote:
Rob,

As I stated before, I'm not going to get on this Forum and proactively promote NACPB. But, I'm happy to answer any questions that some on this Forum may have regarding NACPB.

Point in fact, Tony asked a question in regards to NACPB's Certified Public Bookkeeper (CPB) accreditation; others joined in on the discussion; and I only replied to them as I have to you.

Cathy Hernandez,


:lol: You're in denial. :lol:

I won't bother you anymore because it doesn't look like you're going to snap out of it.

Have a great weekend! 8)


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